Extremely rare full size Billiard dining table …. FULL SIZE 12ft x6ft … complete with bench seat storage for dining tops FOR SALE ! £5000

 

 

April update
My selling client says the table and the bench seat can go for £5000 buyer collects , which is a bit of a Bargain for such a rare table .
Try finding a raise and fall full size Billiard table for sale on the open market at such a low price .

Extremely rare opportunity to acquire what can only be described as the holy grail of billiard tables .

The rarest sized billiard dining available , 12ft tables that rise and fall are very rarely seen
never mind finding one for sale .
Note the bench seat with seat base raised inside the sectional dining top is stored when not in use as a dining table .

We have a client who is based on the Wirrel in Heswall .
and she has a very rare full sized billiard diner , the make I think is of George Wright manufacture circa pre 1895 .
The tops are stored in a modern made bench seat storage which makes this an even more attractive buy .


The dining tops in use , very highly polished with only the odd mark on them .
you may notice that the frame sides are shallow this enables seated people to get their legs under the table , you cannot use a normal 12ft billiard table with deep frame work as a dining table they have to be made like this shallow sided frame work .

The rarity of this 12ft dining billiard table must be pointed out , because you will see plenty of 6ft 7ft & 8ft and maybe a few 9ft dining billiard tables but as you get to the larger sized tables they become more difficult to find as they would be special commissioned tables.
and not normally on a firms brochure to buy off the shelf so to speak .
I know of one modern firm who made a full size dining table for a special order but this was done using the Riley type lifters this table has a very expensive and complicated wind up crank type that has telescopic legs , a much more complicated to make table and therefore not low priced when it was manufactured around the 1890’s .


The table has two wind up and down handles , up to playing height and low to dine off
Both handles slot into the middle legs and have to be turned in unison to crank the 1 inch slate bed section up and down , there is a problem with this at the moment it seems to be stuck in middle height , the table would need to be dismantled to get at the gearing to fix this , but the table will be priced to a reasonable amount allowing any buyer to get this problem solved .
Double cross section beam that is attached to both center legs
you may notice the thick metal plate where the leg joins the frame work .
the side frame work and legs are in fact all steel frame work clad in wood , this is what makes the table very solid and hides the gearing , which has to be packed with grease , and therefore is sealed away from the knees of the people sitting around the table .
Twin anti bow beam muntins support the slate , these attache to cross sections of middle and end panels .
End of frame work showing knee space under the slim frame work

The underside of the table has 4 anti bow muntin beams , plus double cross section beams , the gearing bars is in a U shaped steel girder that runs around the perimeter of the frame , and the top of the legs have the gears inside connected by these gearing bars .
I know this because I have actually taken a 4 leg 9ft version of this table apart that had this same gearing mechanism , but slightly different in that the extending tube came out at the top of the leg this table has it coming out at the base of the leg , if you look where the bulbous reading of the leg stops you will see the round tube like shape , this extends when you crank the table thus lifting the table up or down .
The rise and fall system is not working at the moment , I can put this down into why and maybe solutions

A ) the cogs may have lost some teeth , this is what happened to the 9ft table which only had 4 legs , the cogs are made from bronze and this is a weak point in these tables .
the solution was to get some made at an engineering firm in steel
one set was taken as a pattern to do this by the owner .
this is the worse case scenario as it would be difficult in tracking down an engineer who could do this work , I would suggest a steam engine engineer who has a metal lathe and used to making pattern gearing .

B) a slight less of a problem , the drive cogs have sheared the fixing slit pins and the gears are are spinning on the drive shafts .
simple fix drive new pins in after drilling broken pins out
It would not be impossible to have the gears fixed and we are only speculating what is wrong with the lifting mechanism , nothing can be confirmed until the slates are off and the gears can be inspected from above the U shape channel and boxed leg sections .
Our seller says the table worked perfectly 2 years ago , it maybe that who ever put it together may not have connected the gearing correct of maybe dry of grease .

As an example this is a 8ft George Wright raise and fall diner using the same geared system of the table for sale .
As you can see the extending tube ( telescopic tube ) extends at the top of the leg between the frame and the top of the leg , this showing the table in its full playing height mode .
on the full sized version they have made it to extend from the base of the bulbous leg and the pad of the leg .

Another photo of an un-restored 7ft or 8ft George wright wind up dual height table .
they made a few this size but try finding information on a 12ft versions and I am sure this is the only one you will find on the world wide web as we speak for a full sized version and actually for sale
extends from base of bulbous reeded leg

Now the cushions used to have top plates fitted to them , these have been filled in and standard concealed type plates fitted at some stage in it’s life , this may be due to the dining tops not aligning on the top plates and the cushion cappings and made better by fitting concealed plates

You may notice thin finger type inlays int he wood at each side of the leather , this is where a flat top plate used to be , the rebate for the top plate has been filled in with mahogany to match and then re-polished .
they made a very good job of hiding these as at first glance I did not notice them .

What the pocket plates would have looked like before concealed type fitted .
we call these top plates , or finger plates and some refer to them as billiard plates , these are pre 1895 design tables , so you can date most table with these top plates on as pre 1895 manufacture .

As I have stated the table will come with a very nice bench seat that was made around 1980s /90s , it is used to store the tops when the table is being used to play on , a very neat little trick and a must for any table top billiard diner as it solves the problem of where do we put the tops under the table is the normal answer , but they often get damaged when doing this .

The problem with claiming a makers name to the table is , who ever renovated it removed the ivory name plate on the end cushions , but from leg design of reeded , and the fact it has the rise and fall system that George wright used and patented , then I can be pretty sure it is a George Wright table .

Name plate removed at renovation , it maybe that someone stole it as is often the case , or a billiard fitter who renovated it collects them and took it off and filled it with mahogany
Two prominent makers of wind up action tables where manufacturing dining billiard tables around this time George Edwards and George Wright
in fact both made swivel top diners and sold them to department stores in London like Gamage’s department store
But the lifting mechanisms where different on these dining tables only George wright did the tube geared extending leg version , the ivory George wright plate is what is missing from this table , and you do see them surface from time to time on ebay when a table is scrapped or had cushion upgrades .

Price ?
What do you value a table that can only be described as like finding the holy grail .
Try finding another 12ft full sized Dining billiard table for sale anywhere in the world , especially an antique one circa 1890’s .
you may get a modern table made but not using the gearing system used here , unless you are willing to spend over £30.000. on a bespoke joinery made one ,
I doubt any billiard table manufacturer would take on a project as their normal run of assembly relies on same measurements and fixing methods , any special order like a full sized billiard dining table would be bespoke hand made .
and to be honest some of these smaller bespoke joinery firms do not know how to make a billiard table in the first place , I have seen some shocking efforts made on design rather than functionality hit the market recently .

From the Antique specialist firms we have Hamiltons who may be the only one’s I know who may have one on their stock , if not they know where to find me .
I know what a firm like Hamiltons would ask for this table .
all their prices are POA if you look on their web site .
So what I am proposing to do is first ask you the buyer what you would pay for it .
A so very rare table that comes onto the market in what I think is in very good condition , except for the lifting system needs an overall , any engineering firm or small steam locomotive engineer could repair this system .
The table is very heavy framed as it has some sectional U steel in it’s construction .

offers from private and trade will be considered ,

side of frame from low down angle shows the accessibility of seated persons to get their legs under the table of the shallow frame work , only billiard diners have shallow frame work like this , unless you find a fixed height Gillows table which have slender frames and legs .
but they do not lower down to dining height .
Do not forget the bench storage seat is included .

And we do urge the trade to come forward and offer a deal that is acceptable to both our client and themselves that is fair , Geoff at GCL billiards have advised the seller as to possible values trade wise and private , and what the table could fetch if fully functional and working .
the sale is not what is best for GCL billiards , but what is best for our client who has put their trust in us to find a buyer within the next few months .
I was extremely excited at the prospect of seeing a full sized Billiard dining table as I had only seen the odd one in books and not one in the flesh .
this table did not disappoint me .
You should look at this table as an investment , because the way the market is at the moment the table can be bought at a very good buy in price especially for trade .
the table will seat a large amount of people , so is ideal for a large Victorian Edwardian house , and if you look at my next coming soon advert I can also put any buyer onto a repro Brass Victorian christopher wray lighting system for this table …. with matching wall lights .

Offers for this table to Geoff

c.large@btinternet.com

or contact Geoff at GCL billiards . 07753466064 weekdays and early evenings only .
please leave a message if no one answers I may be hands on fitting tables .